Editor's note: This corrects that fourth-graders, not 4-year-olds, can get a free parks pass, and adds reaction to Secretary Zinke's comments from a military veteran.
Interior Secretary Ryan Zinke says free or discounted passes given to senior citizens, active military, disabled, and even fourth-graders and their families are part of the reason for the National Park Service's funding problems.
During an at times contentious appearance before the Senate Energy and Natural Resources Committee, the secretary, explaining why he's considering a surge pricing system for 17 national parks, said parks are losing too much money to those pass programs.
"I've spent a lot of time in a (park) kiosk, and it's amazing, in our parks, which the maintenance (backlog) as you know, we're far behind," the secretary told the committee Tuesday while explaining the Trump administration's FY2019 budget proposal for the Interior Department. "But when you give discounted or free passes to elderly, fourth-graders, veterans, disabled, and you do it by the carload, there's not a whole lot of people that actually pay at our front door.
"As well as you have a lot of foreign guests," he added. "We're looking at ways to make sure we have more revenue in the front door of our parks themselves. Because when you have a park like (Mount) Rainier, the money they receive coming in the front gate, I want to make sure more of it goes to that park superintendent so he has flexibility in how he spends it."
Under current pass programs, senior citizens 62 and older can purchase a lifetime pass to the parks for $80 (the fee had been $10 until it increased last year), fourth-grade students can receive a free pass through the Every Kid in a Park program started by the Obama administration, active military and their dependents gain free passes, and U.S. citizens who are permanently disabled receive free passes.
While Secretary Zinke said too much of entrance fee revenues go back to Washington, D.C., under current regulations 80 percent of the fees collected in a park stay there, while the other 20 percent is sent to Washington to be redistributed to other areas, including to parks that do not collect entrance fees.
He did acknowledge that park fees alone won't significantly address the park system's $11.7 billion maintenance backlog.
"But a lot of our parks have record visitation," he said. "We expect them to have record visitation again."
Under questioning from Sen. Maria Cantwell, D-Washington, Secretary Zinke said he wasn't suggesting that the free entry given to military, seniors, and fourth-graders should be done away with.
"No, what I'm saying is this: We subsidize and we allow, by design, a lot of people to go through. If you're in a car and you have a veteran in the car, everyone, whether they're a veteran or not, is free in that car," said Secretary Zinke. "Same thing with disabled, same thing with elderly, on passes. Basically, one person with a pass, everyone in that car comes in for free. Whether or not that's correct, we're looking at it."
The secretary's comments drew criticism from an Army veteran who is a senior campaign representative for the Sierra Club's Military Outdoors program.
“I’m a veteran who helps other veterans and their families get outdoors because our public lands can ease the transition from active duty to active citizenship, and are spaces to heal emotionally and physically," said Rob Vessels. "It’s insulting to have the Secretary of the Interior blame me and other veterans for the fact that he won’t fund our national parks properly. I served my country to help protect institutions like our national parks, and have dedicated my life to expanding access to the outdoors for all people. Secretary Zinke should learn to speak more respectfully about veterans before he uses us as a tool for his political agenda to shut working families out of our national parks.”
Secretary Zinke also told the committee that the $80 America the Beautiful parks pass, which allows holders to enter parks as many times as they want for a one-year period, is an incredible bargain, saying he took his family to a movie the other night and that the bill, which included popcorn, came to more than $80.
He said that his staff's review of park fee structures is designed to "make sure that revenue coming into the door of our principal parks is appropriate, making sure that we still have value. Because American parks belong to the public, they belong to all Americans, and everyone should have access."
"We definitely believe we should be increasing access, not disincentivizing it," responded Sen. Cantwell.
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Comments
Correction: it is actually 4th graders and not 4 year olds that get a free pass. I know families who used this incentive program. After speaking with these fourth graders it convinced me this was a great way for working families to visit the peoples national parks. Zinke et al always find scapegoats for the reasons that the national parks have a maintenance backlog. Zinke has a history of abusing government funds, starting with his US Navy days. His goal is to privatize the parks wherever he can. He has his marching orders and he is trying to carry them out.
Boy, that's embarrassing. Thanks for pointing that out Ridgerunner.
Right on Ridgerunner, thank you. Fee increases an issue. For example, in Yosemite, if fee raised to 70.00 for seven days, sounds like a deal. However, 80% of use is day use, 2-3 hours. Campground fees are escalating, 30.00 a night in Yosemite Valley, that is 100.00 just to camp one night, that is if you are lucky enough to get a campground reservation. I think that is to much. One of the issues with the fee demo program is that many areas depend on the this money source to run the park. In major parks, fee money far exceeds base congressional funding. Unforuanety, the idea of raising fees was to give parks a supplemental funding source, not an opportunity for congress not to properly fund them. I do agree that seniors should pay a little, a discounted daily or annual fee seems resonable. As a senior pushing 80 years, I have had free entry and exit for over 20 years now, On the other hand many seniors are on tight budgets, to some extent me included. As the years go by, pensions and social security, in many cases, do not keep up with costs. Complex issue, but the parks should remain afforable for all citizens.
When, and for how long, has he spent time in an entry kiosk?
And, just sayin', a $139,000 door would pay for a lot of disabled veterans' discount lost income.
I have always thought that it was a good idea to ask people to pay something when they visit the parks. The increase to $80 is still a great deal. If other ”free” programs were asked to pay a small fee, I believe it would be appropriate.
I think that Zinke should first be chastizing himself for not fighting for sufficient budget for the parks and wildlife preserves and BIA lands and all the other areas for which he is sworn to take care of.
I agree with others as above. I've got my certified old fart card in my pocket. I wouldn't paying a small token amount in addition to flashing the card and perhaps DOI should look at a more equitable "everyone in the car" factor. I am, however, particularly pissed at this $139,000-door man with a long history of squandering the taxpayers' money, picking out the "easy targets" to blame here. The man has no soul.
Give it a rest Rick. Zinke knew nowthing about the doorS (set of three double doors) and the restoration is part of a project that began long before he was Secretary. Just another one of your efforts to distort the facts to make baseless accusations.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2018/03/09/doors-interior-s...
"Interior Secretary Ryan Zinke was unaware of the contract before reporters started asking about it, according to his spokeswoman, Heather Swift."
According to his spokeswoman. Given the fact that this administration has proven to be terribly allergic to truth in so many other instances, this should probably be taken with a large bag of salt.
Lee, when you have evidence he had prior knowledge, let us know. Meanwhile we will rack it up to another of your baseless accusations. BTW do you think he knew about it a decade ago when the renovations were started?
I watched the hearing an I have noticed the Secretary gets very sensitive and defensive in these hearings and he borders on disrespectful the tone of his replies to elected officials. His comments on the offshore drilling are very interesting.
And Heather Swift has been a notoious party line shill for years, joined at the hip with Zinke. A survey of her past denials and hyperbole shows her as allergic to the truth as he is. Speaking of party line, congratulations on your ongoing efforts.
Also, btw, it would be criminal level negligence for such an executive to NOT know about such plans.
How does one police the 4th grader pass? It's not like 4th graders carry any I.D. I can only imagine the abuse that occurs. Same with the disabled given the abuse I see on planes these days and "service" animals.
My car has disabled plates on it that I had to have a doctor certify medically that I met the criteria.
I've never tried to qualify as a fourth grader, at least not for over 60 or so years now, but I thought that fourth grader thing was to encourage classes to come, but I'm not certain and don't have the policy right to hand.
******************
By the way, I just read where Zinke has said that he got the price of his door project down to $75,000. That's still a lot more than we spent last year putting in a new bathroom, including door, sinks, and all.
A $12 billion budget and it is "criminal negligence" for the director not to know of a $139k expenditure? You expect the Secretary to be aware of every expense that reflects a thousandnth of a % of his budget on a program that began a decade before he took office?
BTW was it "criminal negligence" for the hundred(s) of civil servants that were responsible for the procurement?
Sure, Secretary Zinke. The NPS budget problems are greatly aggravated because there are too many discounts for entrance fees, and too much of the collected fees (actually 20%) goes back to Washington D.C. He needs to take responsibility for his budget proposals which drastically impact the NPS, much more than the relatively small amounts of money involved in fee collection. It is the responsibility of the Administration to adequately fund the NPS and other Interior agencies, and the Interior Secretary should be its strongest advocate.
Parents of a fourth grader simply state that their kid is in 4th grade and that is the standard. Unless the parent is a member of the current administration, their word is probably trustworthy.
Eric - knock off the nonsense. As far as I know, even real estate brokers are generally aware of renovation plans for their own office, especially after being in thaat office for over a year.
Ah, so much horespucky.
Rick, I know if renovations are going on in my office. I have no clue what they are costing because there are people whose responsiblity it is to monitor/manage that. Its not my job. It's not Zinke job to micro manage repairs set in motion a decade ahead of when he assumed his office.
A couple of clarifications, plus my opinions.
1) The concept that all the free & discounted pass programs (including those enacted into law by Congress) represent foregone revenue predates Zinke. It was in a 2015 DOI IG report: https://www.doioig.gov/sites/doioig.gov/files/CINNPS00122013Public.pdf I assert that substantial fractions of those visitors would not visit parks without the special programs, so the actual foregone revenue is some fraction of the IG numbers. The full IG report has some caveats; Zinke just latched on to the executive summary language from that report.
2) The original "Every Kid in a Park" 4th graders program was meant to have worksheets for passes distributed by schools, youth programs like Scouting and YMCA and church youth groups, and by requests from parents to cover home schooled. NPS publicized it to school districts, (naively) thinking that someone in the district offices would want to claim credit for something cool and no cost to the district, so would spread the word to all 4th grade teachers and elementary school principals. That did not happen; word got to teachers more via guerilla marketing word of mouth from rangers to teachers or rangers to parents to teachers. I don't have the data and it might not exist, but I think that despite the lack of communication by school districts, overall more of the forms & worksheets get to kids via teachers than by visits to park VCs or the internet: most families with 4th graders visiting parks don't even know the program exists. VC rangers I talk with haven't seen _any_ families asking for the 4th grade pass that appeared to be gaming the system with kids of other ages (and they do lots of 3rd, 4th, & 5th grade class programs, so they're pretty good at guessing kid's grades).
{Opinions}:
I am in favor of the 4th grade free family annual pass program in terms of giving free samples to families who did not grow up camping and going to National Parks. If they go to a couple of historical National Monuments (many with programs tied in to the local 4th grade curriculum), and maybe visit a natural resource park or monument or National Forest or FWS Wildlife Refuge, some fraction will discover that they enjoy it, and will be paying customers at least occasionally over the rest of their lives. I consider that lost revenue to be good marketing for the future.
I'm not appalled by the cost of the door replacement for the Secretary of the Interior's Office in Main Interior. It is a very old building, and even interior work needs to meet with both ABA and historical preservation rules. Yes, when parks find the cost to remodel 50-yr-old staff restrooms to ABA standards seems high, they simply postpone or cancel the project, but if those doors in Main Interior last for the next 50 years, a bit more cost for architectural integrity seems pretty reasonable. They aren't furniture just for Zinke, the initial project was likely started under Sally Jewell for the benefit of her succesors, and will benefit the next 10 or more Secretaries, staff, and prevent water damage to the building.
I _am_ appalled by Zinke's travel spending, more by the absolute tone-deafness of it than by the tiny dent it puts in the DOI budget. Because Fran Mainella & her entourage spent so much on travel 15 years ago, NPS has been under separate onerous travel restrictions for 15 years. Those hard ceilings are not just on travel to meetings and training. Backcountry time for park staff (including, for example, all time on the islands for Channel Islands staff), and operational travel to parks by scientists, historians, and other positions in WASO or regional offices and shared among parks, all count against the travel ceilings. I can't get $250 against the travel ceiling approved for 3-4 days in Death Valley helping my program staff figure out how to monitor the condition of vegetation in springs & wetlands. Zinke's $3000 extra here to give a speach to a political donor's ice hockey team, $5000 extra there, $8-10K in the Virgin Islands, to say nothing of sightseeing in fire aircraft, etc., is beyond insulting in that context. I mentally convert the dollars into how many operational trips to the field the cost of that chartered flight could have covered. Despite his claims about pushing personnel & funding out to the field and being all about supporting "front line staff" in the field, he won't lift the travel ceilings, even for operational travel, and make parks & programs simply keep overall spending below the funding levels, justify everything, and get our jobs done.
FYI-the 20% of fees which quote "go back to Washington" above, are redistributed to parks which have little or no fee revenue. This revenue stream is very important to the many small parks, monuments, historic sites, etc and in no way is funding "Washington" programs.
DC is one of the most expensive places to live and work. and according to City Lab, if you have $100.00 you will only get $85.00 worth of stuff. Then federal contracts are aways going to be more expensive, as the workers have to have appropriate background clearances (and perhaps a minder or two - given the people would be in Main Interior around all those important people.)
And for those of us who have ever tried to fix/line up/or otherwise change a door out in a historic building where walls/doors/frames change a LOT over the seasons (temp/rainfall)
https://www.citylab.com/life/2015/07/what-100-is-worth-in-cities-across-...
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/interior-secretary-ryan-zinke-criticized-fo...
Interior Secretary Ryan Zinke is under fire for a flippant response to a question from a Hawaii congresswoman about Japanese-American internment camps.
The Trump administration 2019 budget calls for the elimination of the Japanese American Confinement Sites Program, which Hanabusa objected to. "I believe that it is essential that we as a nation recognize our darkest moments so that we don't have to repeat them again," Hanabusa said.
It's long past time to say Sayonara to both trump and zinke.
Might pay attention, Lee. The Swamp is being drained and perhaps more so on your side of the isle than Trump and Zinke. You and many others could save yourselves and realize just how far down the rabbit hole your leaders have taken you such is the hate for this President. Clean up your own nest. Hate destroys and there's an abundance of it.
TA, isn't it fascinating how you and I see each other's dog's drop turds more than we see our own dogs?
Yep, lets deal with the turds in the Park and off the Constitution.
@ m13cli
That people are outraged over his use of the term "konnichiwa" and go so far as to call it racist completely ridiculous. The fact that a "news" agency such as cbs would even write such a piece is equally disturbing. I am not Japanese so will not argue with Democrat Colleen Hanabusa but she should also direct her outrage at just about every online translation page out there that I could find which states it is a typical greeting equating to hello. The same greeting I was told to use by my Japanese co-workers when I traveled there. (https://www.wikihow.com/Say-Hello-in-Japanese). If this is a cause for outrage I would say her life is pretty amazing. How about being appreciative that correct or not he tried to extend a greeting in her ancestral language? As for the internment camps themselves Democrats need to make up their minds if they want to remove history as in the case of the confederacy or keep it as some want with the internment camps. This faux outrage like most things political reporters write these days is complete nonsense.
Uh - you bet that was out of line. He was directing that at a 4th generation Japanese American, and he had not idea what languages she does or doesn't speak other than he should speak to her in English as a sitting member of Congress. His use of that places her as an "other" and not really an American.
I'm sure he'll respond accordingly if someone greets him with "guten tag" with his German surname.
Wild...
All of the Japanese-American officials quoted found it insulting at that moment.
As you say, you are not of Japanese heritege.
How about we go with those who are?
WP--
Perhaps I can explain this one. The issue is that Colleen Hanabusa is a native US citizen who speaks English: her _grandfather_ was a US citizen. Zinke has not greeted Representatives in the German, Italian, Spanish, or any other "ancestral" language of _their_ grand-parents. [Plus, he got it wrong. There is that.] The reflexive idea that Americans of Japanese ancestry are something "different" (and Japanese) even after several generations in the US is what led to natural born US Citizens being dispossessed and shipped off to internment camps.
I'm an old white male natural resources guy, but the National Monuments for the Internment camps are a bit personal to me. I grew up in San Diego, and only slowly started recognizing the ghosts and shadows of the pre-war Japanese-American community in a building here, a former truck farm there, and a handful of old nurserymen, yet somehow no visible current Japanese-American community or cultural activities. In grad school in Salt Lake City I spent an afternoon listening to a groceryman who was sent to Topaz with his family as a child, and they never moved back to California after the war, recount some of his story.
There's more than just Manzanar, and more than just what terrible things our government did in the name of some of our ancestors during the war. Manzanar emphasizes the oral histories of life in the camps; the experiences and lives of those Americans is every bit as much part of the American Experience as pioneers in Scott's Bluff or any western fort. Minidoka NHS is both the site of the internment camp in Idaho with a few remaining buildings, but also a garden on Bainbridge Island (Seattle), memorializing the lives and the community the internees had in that area before they were dispossessed and sent away. Tule Lake Segregation Center, the largest of the camps, is a unit of Valor in the Pacific NM (the USS Arizona Memorial) but managed as part of Lava Beds NM. Honouliuli NM in Hawai'i is still figuring out what their interpretive themes will be when they open to the public. The budget cut that Zinke was being questioned about would zero out funding for archeological and historical studies at these monuments and at other sites that will never become National Monuments or National Historical Places, that won't be funded for preservation or stabilization but will be allowed to decay, but nonetheless have history we can learn from.
Thank you tomp2.
tomp2 --- I have to sympathize with what you wrote. My wife, as an NPS curator, has had the opportunity and responsibility on occasion to work with archival objects from these camps. She came home at night and described to me in detail how moving these items and experiences were. It sensitized me to the camps, their occupants, and their experiences in a way that all too many other white Americans have not. Responses to Zinke's faux pas pretty well break down on one side of that or the other.
Sure. Many of my friends, neighbors, coworkers, teachers, etc. have been Japanese-American. It would have never occurred to me to greet them as if they weren't anything but native English speakers. Granted I've actually used non-English greetings out of habit with several friends/coworkers who are not native English speakers, but it was really something said out of familiarity and not an assumption like Zinke made.
Of course it was juvenile. Probably as juveline as faking a southern/English/Australian accent. It was totally fake on his part.
Dana Milbank of the Washington Post had an interesting take on this:
Even after he had time to reflect, Zinke was unapologetic. “How could ever saying ‘Good morning’ be bad?” he said over the weekend.
Actually, it’s closer to “Good afternoon,” but let’s follow Zinke’s logic on this: He’ll soon be greeting a Jewish lawmaker with “Shalom,” an African American lawmaker with “Jambo,” Mexican American questioners with a spirited “Que pasa?” and Native Americans with “How.” It is the benevolent ruler who greets the natives in their ancestral tongues.
It was a disrespectful and childish attempt at humor. Her response was indicative of the justifiably low regard many of our lawmakers have for this administration.
In particular, Zinke with his record of ethical lapses as a public servant. His claims that he didn't take a "private jet" because it had propellers. And his exagerrations that he had combat awards. Yet somehow he's elected to Congress and confirmed as Secretary of the Interior.
I am always amazed how people can get their panties in such a wad over the most meaningless things.
Public Service ethics, in my own view, is extremely important. Every department has approved ethical standards that an employee agrees to. This includes the Secretary. All public service is paid for by taxpayers, government agencies are not privately owned. When a public service employee at any level up to and including the President, breaks ethical standards, or worse, the law, it is a very big deal in my own opinion. It is bad enough when the private sector does it, and unfortunately it is happening to frequently.
But if one is a white male, sitting upon the top of the privilege pyramid, only respects the profit motive, 'ethics' is a null concept.
[nb: I'm also a white male, am aware of my privilege, and respect ethics over profit.]
With you on ethics Ron, but don't see greeting someone in Japanese as an ethical issue. BTW, I also haven't seen you screeming about Ethics when it comes down to Hillary, Lois Lerner, Comey, McCabe ................................................
y_p_w, & tomp2 It may or may not have been out of line. I wasn't there and assume you weren't either so it could have been an intentional slight, a clumsy attempt at humor or a perfectly respectful greeting. It was after all (according to the article) Colleen Hanabusa who first made a point of bringing up her Japanese heritage and connection and seemed to take exception not at his use of a Japanese word but which word he chose which to me is equally childish. If intended as a slight then yes, it was disgusting but that is not how the article portrayed it. I am also not advocating we don't preserve this part of our history, quite the opposite actually. My whole point was the overall childish nature of the article and I guess politics in general these days. Rather than focus on the issue at hand the press and apparently a few others choose to focus on what word was used. One would think they were all back in grade school.
@ rmackie - I think ethics (and morals) are extremely important everywhere and especially so in our political and legal systems. That they have been on the decline not only in politics but throughout our society for a long time now is indeed troubling.
I just read that Zinke has his own commemorative coin. How nice, it's called a challenge coin
We're dealing with the Trump administration, where Trump himself is the leader in grade school insults. But Zinke doesn't seem to understand how he is perceived. And the issue at hand is that he's more like the modern day equivalent of James Watt rather than his purported hero Teddy Roosevelt.
Yes, and that is one thing that doesn't appeal to me about the man. But grade school insults have nothing to do with ethics. Nor do they have anything to do with attempting to connect with someone by using a greeting in the language of their heritage, especially when they have made a point of their heritage.
And by the why, I will take grade school insults in exchange for expanding economic growth, declining food stamps an expanding workforce, more secure borders and a denuclearized North Korea any time.
North Korea has been denuclearized? Talk about fake news!
Yeah, I get my panties in a bunch over the unjustified internment of 110,00-120,000 people, 62% American citizens due to Yellow Peril anxiety, a predecessor IMHO to Zinke's comments.
I don't know about you, but I'm kind of concerned that the "tax cut" is going to cost me money because my SALT deduction is capped to pay for other loss of revenue.
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