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Comments
Whewre are all those "good guys with guns" when they're needed? Environmental terrorism, is what this is.
This is vandalism alright, but when did it happen? Not in the last few weeks, that’s for sure. There are no visible wood chips from the cutting and the exposed inner wood from the cut is bleached out from the sun. I know it’s the hot desert sun, but this tree has been laying there for a while. Fake news trying to blame this vandalism on the government shutdown.
y_p_w--
I was trying to add facts to the thread. That last comment was pointing out to Luke & others that while you can't go out and dig one up, Joshua Trees can and are used for landscaping in Las Vegas and Phoenix as well as across the Mojave Desert, where they're much more appropriate than a lawn.
I'm done with this thread: overtaken by un-registered drive-by commentators shouting fake news while ignorant of what Joshua Trees look like. I wish I were confident that they all at least share our love for our (all of our) National Parks like ecbuck, Al, SmokiesBackpacker, and other regulars I often disagree with on this site.
In the chaotic aftermath of 2011 earthquake & tsunami, Japanese citizens still maintained societal cohesion & community mores. In times of desperation, respect for one another extended in such ways that not even vending machines were raided. I can't imagine Americans acting anywhere close to that level of dignity.
To me the fallen tree looks more like it was snapped off. Possibly by a cable or winch.
American exceptionalism in action.
kcs503 - I think you are confused. The House passed a funding bill- without a single Dem vote. It was brought to the Senate and Mitch - who is far from my "best boy" - brought it up to vote and it failed with all Dem votes being negative. This shut down is on your "best boys".
President Trump said he took full responsibility for the shutdown. It was filmed and broadcast on every news station, including Fox. I take the president at his word; it is he who has drawn the line in the sand.(During his campaign, he said Mexico would pay for the wall. That, too, is recorded on film and easily available. He did NOT say it would be paid for indirectly via a trade agreement with Mexico that has yet to be signed.)
I have always assumed that those of us reading Traveler are lovers of nature and the outdoors and parks. We have different political philosophies and opinions on HOW to operate a park system, but I can't imagine anyone on here just dismissing reports of park damage as fake news! We all know about morons who vandalize parks -- grafitti, carving initials, stealing petrified wood, etc. -- when park security is at full force. Why is it so hard to believe that many more morons will go hog-wild (apologies to the swine family) when they know they won't get caught?
What we really need to worry about is the tightening in many government agencies of Freedom of Information actions. Without open records and open meetings, you will get only what those in charge at the moment want you to get. Which is fine if those in charge happen to be to your liking. But what if the "other guys" take charge?
Democracy dies in darkness.
ecbuck - I know you are confused. Congress passed a bill a year ago. Trump was going to sign it. Then his handlers at Fox told him not to. It's been down hill from there. Fast foward to mid December. Congress passed a bill, but Trump refused to sign it because it didn't have enough money for his pet wall. McConnell got all ego-tripped when the Dems took over the House. The House right now has two bills to reopen the government, but McConnell won't even let them go to the floor of the Senate for a vote. Four days ago McConnell blocked a Senate bill to reopen the government, just because it was written by Dems. McConnell won't push for even a republican bill, he hates the democrats so much, because he thinks Trump "might" not sign it. This is all on McConnell when he blocks bills. It's all on Trump and McConnell when Trump refuses to sign a bill. It's the same as a veto, so Congress can override it if they have enough votes. But McConnell won't allow that. Those are YOUR best boys. I'm tired of reading articles yet another one of our parks being vandalized and destroyed by humans who have become animals. I'd like to plan a trip to Joshua Tree by mid-March, but as long as Trump keeps the government shut down, I won't. He threatens a shutdown for months or years.
I haven't been following politics since last summer but last I checked the federal government was operating under a series of contiuing resolutions. Hasn't it been years since an actual budget has been submitted by the administration,passed by congress and signed by the president?
i want to know if Joshua tree allows ANY OFF ROAD OR 4 wheelers or ATVs in the park during regular days. Surely banning these will help. Additionally, park permits should include statements which underscore the illegal passage into closed for vehicles policy. Violators will be prosecuted. Bottom line, campers will violate rules at any time given opportunity. The cost should be great if caught, and the violators should PAY. Sadly, many people turn these incidents into political opportunities, rather than making it a time to sound off for improved camper ethics.
President Trump passed a law within weeks of becoming president fo allot more funds to help fix the old unkempt parks back to a safe environment also he raised the cost of the lifetime NP card to $80 for seniors to be used for improvements. He is for improvements and I love these parks. They needed this.. so please blame the thugs not the fixer
Karen -
Sorry but he hasn't "fixed" anything in the parks. From the point of view of most of us out here, HE is the thug.
Joshua Tree NP has unfortunately become a casualty from Trump's Shutdown. . Anyone who
believes in conservation and our national park system must become a "steward" of our national park
system and vow to support the parks, to elect good leaders (not bad ones)...and to end the mess
created by the current Administration thru ts bad policies and total disregard for the public welfare .
Submitted by Nancy in Texas on January 15, 2019 - 12:26pm.
i want to know if Joshua tree allows ANY OFF ROAD OR 4 wheelers or ATVs in the park during regular days. Surely banning these will help. Additionally, park permits should include statements which underscore the illegal passage into closed for vehicles policy. Violators will be prosecuted. Bottom line, campers will violate rules at any time given opportunity. The cost should be great if caught, and the violators should PAY. Sadly, many people turn these incidents into political opportunities, rather than making it a time to sound off for improved camper ethics.
=====
Nancy, all of what you suggest already IS provided to visitors entering the park.
The problem is that when violators are caught, punishment is usuallly not enough to really catch their attention. It's NOT related to "political opportunities," because it's something that has been a challenge ever since the first day Yellowstone was established as a park. Unfortunately, some members of Congress and sometimes even the White House have used our parks as "political opportunities."
assuming the story is correct, I can only conclude that this park could use a big beautiful wall to protect it from illegal entry!
This tree was dead. I have over 50 Joshua's on my property. Been going 48 years. This tree has been on the ground a long time. Please post honest pics. If you don't people in the middle leave.
This won't make it to the comments, though. Deceptive site.
GREEN party registered, fyi. Be honest.
OK, Rob. Deceptive eniough to let you sneak right on through the censors and get your comment posted. New around here, I take it?
[edited for a spelling typo]
Anyone who thinks that tree was cut down has never cut down a tree. It might have been knocked over (meaning it was dead already), but it certainly was not cut.
Friends, stop wasting your time trying to convince people that this is yet another mess owed to the current tenant in the White House. THEY DON’T CARE. $1 million in lost entry fees during shutdown. For what? Art of the Deal?
In hindsight, Trump should have assigned marines from the Twenty Nine Palms base to guard the park. The sight of armed marines stationed at the entances, visitor centers and campgrounds would no doubt have discouraged anyone from driving around a gate or cutting a chain.
Yeah Pioneer, 1 million lost gate receipts and billions lost to illegals. For what? For security of our borders. Oh, and BTW, it was the Dems that voted not to fund the government not Trump.
Mr Kemp--
[[cut and paste from wikipedia]]
The Posse Comitatus Act is a United States federal law (18 U.S.C. § 1385, original at 20 Stat. 152) signed on June 18, 1878, by PresidentRutherford B. Hayes. The purpose of the act – in concert with the Insurrection Act of 1807 – is to limit the powers of the federal government in using federal military personnel to enforce domestic policies within the United States. It was passed as an amendment to an army appropriation bill following the end of Reconstruction and was updated in 1956 and 1981.
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