Fortunately, NPT has courteously provided the more disputatious among us with another opportunity for, er, shall we say vigorous debate:
/2012/05/npca-worried-house-legislation-would-open-national-park-system-hunting9984
Roger,
Thanks for the invite, but I highly doubt that I'll make it that way. Too many other trails on the bucket list that would take precedence.
Bob,
Great funny ending!
Now that we're winding down -- for more fun, we can all download the General Management Plan from Mammoth Cave, which has shrunk hiking and biking opportunities to serve the horse lobby better. We could combine this thread with the Sierra horsepacking thread and have a three-way scrum.
Thanks for the invitation, Roger. Maybe I will be near Big Bend someday.
If I may provide some evidence for a pretty good level of civility in this thread, here's how some people are behaving in Indiana, in sad contrast:
http://www.theindychannel.com/news/31126554/detail.html
Thanks for your response imtnbke. If you are ever close to Big Bend, Kurt would know how to get ahold of me. I would like to sit down with you, Zebulon, or anyone else,as I have with Jeff Renfrow. At one time I was on the board of his Trails Alliance but had to resign over the differing opinon on Big Bend NP.
Thanks, Roger. Let me say prefatorily that if you register on this website your comments will appear immediately and the "not verified" label will disappear.
If you'd like to send your longer comment version to me, please forward it to Kurt. He knows how to reach me and I'm quite sure the same is true of his ability to contact Zebulon.
George, thank you for your candid remarks. I understand your perspective and appreciate your summarizing it in your 8:03 comment. In fact I agree with you in part, namely that the National Park Service has to be careful what precedents it sets regarding permitted uses, lest it make a mistake that it cannot later undo, at least not easily.
I drafted a response to each of imtnbke's quetions but it became longer than I wanted to submit to NPT. I would however be glad to submit it to imtnbke and zebulon and others if there is a way to do that but here are a few brief points.
George, can you explain why mountain bike is "inappropriate"? It sounds to me like an unsupported opinion. And the main reason why mountain bikers seek a single track experience is exactly the same as hikers prefer it: to provide an experience closer to nature.
And yes, hikers would still be most welcome in our national parks and wilderness areas. Of course you are—as long as you ride your bike. No one would be kept out. Everyone has a bike. Well, almost everyone; for those who don't, charities can step in.
"Similarly, mountain bikes using the same trails as hikers is like the mix of cars and bikes. It's unsafe."
Well, one solution would be to ban hiking, for hikers' own safety. I'll ask my member of Congress to get right on it! Problem solved.
I started with the National Park Service in 1961 and to a lesser degree, continue to today. I was an avid hiker but now MB because of bad feet. I applaud the passion and conscientious and generally well-thought out dialog of the opposing views and understand that neither will convince the other.
A few comments. The atttitude of many mountain bikes is aggressive--not only in defending their activity, but also on the trail. The attitudes I've encountered with mountain bikers is similar to those of other thrillcraft users like dirt bikers, etc. There is even a close similarity in clothing, iconology and demographics. Most dirt bikers are youngish male as are most avid mountain bikers.
As visitorship continues to decline at our national parks including Big Bend National Park what do you suggest be done Mr. Siglin to make the park more attractive to other than the aging, traditional and more ardent fans of the NPS system?
Once again, the public falls victim to the silly name game. The places named national "park" have no special significance over the other units of the National Park System.
I've been to both of these locations, and I would note that "basic" is the operating word. The dining facilities at Cedar Grove are more of a basic snack bar where the menu is one of those boards where the letters are pressed into a bunch of lines. I think they have a "higher end" menu for dinner, but it was mostly greasy burgers and fried foods.
interesting reading, was just there on 5/25/12 and while we didn't hike Angels Landing, we did hike up to Hidden Canyon and beyond into canyon. There are chains on that hike too and the canyon is beautiful.
Believe it's the "Political Science" angle that's the most damaging and profitable to the likes of "wildlife/wilderness" pimps, in some cases. Some are taken in the beginning with what seems like a cool cause but when tempted with marketing and money rewards lose all objectivity and sense of what's often a simple and monetarily unrewarding solution.
We need to end the "best available science" BS as it clearly has been debunked several times and is simply an excuse for not doing your due diligence. Every time this phrase is used it is systematically proven wrong.
Laborman: Funny you should mention ethics. Who was it that said recently to his pastor? That the pastor had to tell the truth but he was a politician and could lie. Sooner or later those lies surface and hopefully/usually, there's a correction (often to the other extreme) so leave these important decisions to those that live in realville, please.
Pretty unbelievable how willing right-wingers are to risk destroying our planet in the name of "freedom." Freedom to do what? Make a mistake and create an abomination against God, nature and our planet's future? It's not worth the risk. The tecnology and ethics of hard-rock mining are from another age.
I am currently suing the Department of the Interior and the BLM regarding the Northern Arizona Withdrawal and the EIS that supported it. These emails are a God send. They clearly show that the DOI and the BLM had a "policy" to shape the information and science in the EIS to support a withdrawal decision. This "policy" is unlawful. An EIS, by regulation, is supposed to be a neutral document.
Yes, get rid of the liars and deceivers whatever their political persuasion and get real about the challenges being faced. Would be very helpful to return and do over many of the wrongs that have been perpetuated by PC imagery and buerocratic activism that do not serve us or the wild places.
The National park service and the BLM, in collusion with the Obama administration are systematically trying and so far succeeding in bypassing the Mining Law established in 1872. This is a good law and that is why it has lasted so long. It's similiar to ignoring the freedoms outlined in our constitution.
Thanks for keeping us informed about park doings! Your recent article about the prospectus for the new Yellowstone contract was so great I shared it with a bunch of other Yellowstone employees so everyone could understand what all of it means.
Please keep up the great writing! We appreciate it.
Reed -
Sounds like a problem that needs to be addressed. You'll find phone, mail and e-mail contact information for the park headquarters at the following link. I'd suggest you send this information right to the park:
Two of us just bicycled Cumberland to Washington, D.C. 184.5 miles. Tenth trip down the canal towpath. Left Cumberland May 20th. (2012)
************* Never had so much as a flat tire before. *************
This is unfortunate:
“But Parks Canada is facing another challenge: Attendance is declining, which may have long-term implications for public support. In 1995, 15.3 million Canadians visited a national park, compared to only 12.5 million last year.”
Hi YPW,
I'm a reporter for the Jackson Hole News & Guide, and am working on a story about the redevelopment plans. Care to voice your opinion in a phone conversation? You'd be quoted in this Wednesday's weekly paper. Please give me a call at 9524127344 if you're interested.
Thanks,
Mike
[color=black]Yes Lee, the park's have places where the senselessness of war stands out. This is Memorial Day, and we have a few stories up about places in the parks where you can go and appreciate the sacrifices made by those who fought to create or defend this country.
I do believe that there is "middle ground" here so that this can be
avoided. In order to achieve this however, all groups involved should
and must be willing to sit down and work together,
Excellent May 26 comment, Tammy. In particular, we mountain bikers suspect you're right about how our second-class status was conferred in the early 1980s, though no one's been able to prove it.
@ Wilderbeast....I was not aware of this...ugh I will say I have read some on the "hikers" websites, and it doesn't take more than a few paragraphs to understand what they hoped to accomplish in this lawsuit and the future ones that were clearly in the works.
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