| Page 1598 | National Parks Traveler

Quote------ Under most of the counterarguments offered, the general thinking seems to be that to protect ourselves we all should be carrying our own gleaming, semi-automatic, or perhaps even automatic, pieces to ensure safety in society. Frankly, folks, I don't see how that's going to accomplish much beyond an increase in the number of shoot-outs. Quote------

Nov 20th - 16:38pm | Steve Sergeant

Here's an audio documentary about the work it takes to restore a pot plantation after the growers have been busted and the plants removed by law enforcement: http://www.wildebeat.net/shows/outings/E019.html This is a big job that has to be done by volunteers, because none of the parks can afford the labor to do it.

Guns in the Parks: A Bad Idea

Nov 24th - 18:36pm | Snowbird

Yes, paranoia is alive and well in the National Parks. Mixed with a little booze and a touch of domestic violence because your wife BBQ the steak wrong, or somebody accidently takes your camping spot by mistake... you just whip out your little old permit pistol...and settle business! Yes, the way the good old boy's like to settle it...the NRA way!

Nov 24th - 05:29am | David Beck, Sr

I read somewhere that our founding fathers wrote into our Constitution 'A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.'

Nov 23rd - 05:17am | Michael

As much time as I spend in the woods it puts my mind at ease when I do carry. As a boy of 12 I came across a pack of wild dogs, had it not been for my trusty .22 leaver action I don't think I would be here today, for they had already killed a 500 lb steer. Now days,there are more than wild dogs in the woods, and those things are alot more dangerous.

Nov 21st - 14:36pm | David

Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Our forefathers knew what they were talking about.

Nov 21st - 08:24am | kath

The comment about just a few stagecoach robberies in Yellowstone in the olden days was not only flippant but ill informed.

Nov 21st - 08:23am | kath

Then there was the 1992 'incident' in which an escaped convict from the Arizona state pen hid out on the South Rim of the Grand Canyon, kidnapping and robbing tourists along the way to make his getaway.

Nov 21st - 06:51am | kath

Another 'incident' not mentioned is the murder of a national park volunteer in Yosemite a few years ago.

Nov 21st - 05:15am | dutch

Kurt. This law enables law abiding people to carry. The criminals already are (they don't obey gun bans). Therefore, the "pistol packing hiker" is not going to "take you on" unless you are going to rape him.

Nov 20th - 21:46pm | Dennis Olson

I think it would make more sense to ban cars from all national parks since more people are killed and injured by cars than guns. Maybe it's time we understood what threats are real and what are not.

Nov 20th - 20:31pm | Jon Carruthers

Does anyone find it odd that of all the posts so far in response to this blog...NOT ONE AGREES WITH THE AUTHOR...?? I, for one, am loving it.

Nov 20th - 17:35pm | Rod Adams

All I desire is the ability to protect my family and self from predators while enjoying the scenic beauty within our Nation's parks. The predators I describe include both wild animal and un-lawful human bent on causing harm, or worse, death.

Nov 20th - 16:36pm | LeeA from VA

Posting a "No Firearms" sign is like posting a "Helpless Victims Here" sign. Criminals by definition DO NOT obey the law! They (criminals) are like preditory animals. They attack the weak. You will not see a lion attack a full grown healthy elephant but if the elephant is sick, wounded or a baby he becomes lunch.

Nov 20th - 14:35pm | MikeB

I had the courtesy of riding home with a senior level member of the Nat'l Park Svc a year ago and discussed safety in the Nat'l Parks. I was told that there is a lot of crime that goes unreported...and that criminals, like pedophiles and violent criminals, who have been shunned by society are now seeking refuge in National Parks.

Nov 20th - 14:31pm | Day Hiker

Month after month, article after article, right out of the National Park Service Morning Reports: Man arrested for Rape in Park Murder Suspects Arrested Attempted Homicides Fatal Shootings Assaults on Visitors Homicide Investigations Kidnapping Felony Drug Trafficking Animal attacks The life threatening list goes on and on. As a law abiding citizen I have the right

Crime in the Parks

Nov 24th - 15:18pm | Shane

One only need to see who wrote the editorial...the New York Slimes! Hey Slimes, here's a little FACT for ya: It's not the law-abiding citizens who have a concealed-carry permit (that required an extensive background check and/or firearms courses) who are committing crimes in the parks, it's the CRIMINALS WHO WILL ALWAYS HAVE GUNS VIA THEFT AND/OR FORGED DOCUMENTS!!

Nov 23rd - 10:56am | Opinionmill

Kurt Thanks for the post and the time you put into the research, but I respectfully disagree with your conclusion. The management of backcountry crime should include funding/support for law enforcement activities until the frequency and/or severity decreases. But at the same time it should never remove or suppress self defense capabilities.

Nov 22nd - 18:34pm | Snowbird

Alan, your comments are well taken and I agree with your disdain for former Sen. Allen, and his kiss-butt tactics with the NRA.

Nov 22nd - 16:49pm | Alan

Additionally, the NPCA is correct. The solution to combatting crime in national parks isn't to go about arming every visitor with a pistol but to properly fund the National Park Service.

Nov 22nd - 16:45pm | Alan

In my mind, this isn't about park visitors' safety. It's about George Allen, the now-defeated incumbent senator from the great state of Virginia, kissing the rear-end of the gun-rights lobby. Folks visiting a park like Yellowstone have a greater risk of getting harmed doing something stupid around megafauna than they do of getting mugged or robbed at gunpoint.

Nov 22nd - 09:15am | Snowbird

Relax Kath! I'm a professional "park nut" and enjoy every minute of it.Besides, poking fun and jest may open dialoque for honest communication, and debate. Anyway, Happy Thanksgiving!

Nov 22nd - 07:41am | kath

If the NP law enforcement rangers don't want it, then I'd concur with their opinion. They are the closest to the issue. (I still don't like calling anyone a 'nut'. I wouldn't like being called an 'enviro-nut' or 'park nut'. It just doesn't contribute to a two-way dialogue.)

Nov 21st - 16:52pm | Snowbird

Oh come Kath! Stop being so politically correct and righteous. I believe in saying like it is and especially when the other side wishes not to have a honest debate and dialogue. Have you ever tried to get a point across to a "gun nut" from the NRA? I have and it usually doesn't work! Anyway, I respect your opinion.

Nov 21st - 16:18pm | repanshek

Kath, Since Sen. Allen's legislation was just recently introduced (Nov. 16, I'm told), and was not reported out of committee, the NPS's FOP chapter has not taken a stand on it.

Nov 21st - 13:57pm | kath

It's frightening when minds are closed either way. The question of whether it would increase safety of park visitors or decrease park safety needs to be studied before anyone can say anything. And name calling of 'gun nuts' doesn't really further the conversation.

Nov 21st - 11:43am | Snowbird

Senator Allen is a another Richard Pombo, wearing a three piece suit in cowboy jack boots. Sen. Allen represents a mole into the National Park Service for the gun lobby. Simple as that!

Nov 21st - 11:04am | Snowbird

Why can't you gun nuts leave your little water pistols at home, instead of bringing them into the National Parks and start causing more problems...and possible harm. Stick to your toy gun ranges and have your fun. Adding more well paid and trained rangers will subside the crime in time. Adequate funding is paramount!!

Nov 21st - 10:23am | Rick Smith

Kurt-- It looks like the gun lobby is alive and well. Your posts have drawn the expected ire of those who see any reasonable limits on the carrying of weapons as a threat to what they consider to be "the American way of life." You have got it right. Parks are a lot safer because visitors cannot carry concealed weapons than parks would be if they could.

Nov 21st - 10:10am | Dave Yates

Not her again... Taylor-Goodrich is one of the major reasons that Allen introduced S4057 to begin with, and Jim Webb promised the same. She's the mouthpiece of the National Park Service and accordingly she will do as any public relations or press staff will - SPIN.

Nov 21st - 09:59am | kath

What is the position of the National Park Lodge of the Fraternal Order of Police or law enforcement park rangers in general? I don't know whether permitting the carrying of weapons in national parks would decrease or increase crime, but it does appear that crime in the backcountry is increasing.

Favorite Parks: Round Four

Nov 23rd - 17:30pm | Snowbird

Squeeze in between Sequoia & Kings Canyon National Park...there's the majestic Mineral King. If you want positive personal space...this is it!

Mary's Thoughts on the Parks

Nov 23rd - 08:38am | Snowbird

Again, dear Raul, your credentials don't seem to back up your curt spiel. I don't know what paper mill university you went to, but your comments are much to be desired with some concrete facts instead of waving this Phd stuff that you so proclaim to have.

Nov 22nd - 22:42pm | Raul

..."fur, feather and fin"...now ain't that so special! You need to read a few of John Stossel's books about how y'all are just a bunch of chicken littles with no science to back it up!

Nov 22nd - 20:04pm | Snowbird

Not angry dear Raul, I just have a lot of fire in my belly in saving a few things that you probably don't care about...like fur, feather and fin...not much left! If you dare to read E.O.Wilson book on "The Creation"! then you will know what mean. Perhaps, your more interested in reading something like "How To Get Rich Quick" or Donald Trumps new book on real estate quick rich schemes.

Nov 22nd - 16:28pm | Raul

It's funny how so many tree-huggers are down on corporations, unless it is the corporation known as the Sierra Club of course.... Do you eat anything bought in a store, made by those EVIL corporations, Snowbird? I don't really care if they wanna brag or not...as long as our parks are protected and funded! "Donate and shut-up"...hmmm...no need to get nasty here...why are you so angry?

Nov 22nd - 08:08am | Snowbird

Jim, the National Parks have enough corporate logo strewn around the parks...just check out the trash bins around the parks. What's wrong having anonymous corporate donors and less fan fare in knowing who they really are...unless some CEO wants to glorify himself in front of a audience and become a braggard and say: see what my company did, and wow aren't we great! Donate and shut up!

Nov 21st - 21:14pm | Jim

THIS is what I'm talkin' about! Thank you J.M. Huber!! NJ Company Makes First Corporate Donation To Aid Save Ellis Island!

Nov 21st - 21:03pm | Jim

We definitely MUST and need to get corporations (with lots of $$$) involved in the business of preserving our parks in public-private partnerships.

Yellowstone Officials Prefer Snowmobiles

Nov 23rd - 08:19am | Snowbird

Dear Raul, your comments don't speak well for your so called credentials. Raul, read E.O. Wilson's book: The Creation! He gives better arugments then Michael Chrichton's article...it's so weak noodle! You have a PhD, my lord...I'm impressed!

Nov 22nd - 22:59pm | Raul

Stop the Global WHINING!! Sheesh!! Perhaps y'all should read "State of Fear" by Michael Chrichton...this article sums it up: http://www.heartland.org/Article.cfm?artId=16260 Read some of the "Reviews and Reactions" highlighted in green.

Nov 22nd - 19:33pm | Snowbird

Well Jim, you did express your dark age mentality about global warming (something that the Bush administration tried to ignore and stifle, regarding the Hansen report on global warming for NASA). Yes, catchy words do have impact when it arouses attention to man's degradation of the environment...certainally caught yours!

Nov 22nd - 16:41pm | Alan

Noise, pollution, disturbance. These and other impacts are in opposition to the park's stated objective: preservation of its wild and scenic character. This seems frightfully hard for some to understand. In any case, the taxpayers have now paid for four snowmobile use studies. The Great Falls Tribune just published a straight-on editorial about the issue.

Nov 22nd - 16:05pm | Jim

LOL...you're funny, Snowbird!

Nov 22nd - 07:45am | Snowbird

Jim, I guess your one of those who just can't live without the morass of noise and pollution in the parks. I guess it really upsets those poor snowmobile trottle jockies to know that "global warming" is for real. Yes! the parks were created to serve all, but not to bring every gas guzzling piece of junk into the parks.What's your fear Jim?

Nov 21st - 20:39pm | Jim

C'mon now...the geysers and mud pots emit more greenhouse gases, methane, SO2, CO2, (you name it...they emit it) in a few minutes than 1000 snowmobiles in a full winter! Enviros need to remember that the parks were created to serve all our people in this country...not just the elitist few who constantly cry about the sky falling over a little exhaust.... Now, speaking of hot air....

Nov 20th - 20:01pm | Snowbird

I smell a rat in the hole with this report. The so called park bureaucrats are trying their best to skew any report, or mandate that would restrict the excessive use of snowmobiles in Yellowstone National Park.It's not about preservation of Yellowstone, but the preservation of the pocketbook of the recreational industry

Pennsylvanians Don't Want Gambling Near Gettysburg

Nov 22nd - 16:57pm | Alan

Pennsylvania is opening casinos under the stated banner of reducing citizens' property taxes. Most independent analyses show a whopping $200 tax reduction for most folks in the state. There are lots of good arguments against gambling in general (and let's call it what it is, gambling, not "gaming").

What's Wrong With This Picture?

Nov 21st - 20:31pm | Jim

The nonchalant look of the kids (not paying much attention to the bison) leads me to believe that this is a zoom shot...the bison are actually much further away than it appears....

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