| Page 1469 | National Parks Traveler

While I applaud the decision as such, I see a huge problem coming up from it. This decision is not about the use of snowmobiles in the first place, it is about sloppy decision making in the NPS and even sloppier documentation of those decisions. Administrations decisions must be documented in such way that (judicial) oversight is possible.

Sep 16th - 00:36am | Ted Clayton

Jim, Ah - I knew that all snowmobiles are guided (which surely goes a long way to tamp down the yee-haw! factor), but not the 4-stroke requirement. I understand that models tuned for smooth riding, durability & economy (rental machines) are similar to automobiles in emissions.

Sep 16th - 00:35am | Anonymous

No vehicles should be allowed in any national park. Park all them RVs and cars at the entrance and walk in! You wanna see Old Faithful? Hop on a mule.

Sep 16th - 00:09am | jsmacdonald

Ted, The current plan calls for snowmobiles to be accompanied by a guide and that they be 4-stroke. So, if that isn't good enough, it's not clear what would satisfy the judge in this case.

Sep 16th - 00:06am | Random Walker

Yellowstone Superintendent Suzanne Lewis, National Park Service Director Mary Bomar and Interior Secretary Dirk Kempthorne each wholly deserve this finely worded 63-page bitch slap, IMHO. Reads to me like Judge Sullivan did his homework.

Sep 15th - 22:47pm | Ted Clayton

bearguy, Alaska! Do you have a sense how the general Alaska snowmobile community stands on this question? Is it typical or atypical for an Alaskan snowmobiler to oppose their use in Parks?

Sep 15th - 21:51pm | Anonymous

Why do we keep allowing these motorized machines to pollute the environment in all our parks. The parks are not meant for racing etc they are meant to preserve the plants and animals and allow for guarded enjoyment by the public in such a way that the environment or animals are not interfered with.

Sep 15th - 21:32pm | Ted Clayton

There might be some pertinent insight to be gained, by looking into the background & history of Judge Sullivan. There's always been hangin' Judges, and warnin' Judges. From the points Kurt quotes the Judge as listing, the bench is basically 'fixing' the Park's winter use Plan. "You need to do better here, you need to be more specific there."

Sep 15th - 21:13pm | Anonymous

I am not saying that anything should be banned. All I did was point out the difference in the reaction to similar cases in YELL and CAHA. And wonder why the CAHA crew hasn't jumped on the bandwagon to allow snowmobiles in YELL....

Sep 15th - 21:10pm | bearguy

As an Alaskan who has spent time on a snow machine I support this decision. Snowmachines, ORVs, and other such vehicles have no place in parks whose mission is to protect and preserve the scenery and the ecosystems. These recreational activities are not compatible with this directive. There are other public and private lands where these damaging activities can occur.

Sep 15th - 20:57pm | dapster

It's ironic that most of these comments are in favor of keeping snowmobiles out of YELL, yet most of the commentators on CAHA issues want motorized access. Perhaps many of the CAHA people aren't interested in YELL? Or is YELL somehow different than CAHA? If so, is it really our - or anyone's - prerogative to say that one park is more deserving of protection than another?

Sep 15th - 20:55pm | JaeC

I agree with Paul. There has to be other places for people to snowmobile in the winter besides Yellowstone NP. Or any other National Park for that matter. Animals and habitat are already under stress in the winter. Why add more? My hats off to all the people involved in reaching this decision.

Sep 15th - 18:42pm | Anonymous

Sep 15th - 18:19pm | Anonymous

Let's see if this one holds...we've been here before. Its time to give the park back to the native species as much as possible during the stressful times of winter (especially last year), and to allow those who visit the park in winter for the very reason of skiing within a pristine landscape with no mechanical noise--or as little as possible.

Sep 15th - 17:47pm | Barky

Huzzah! And what a way to bring a flame-bait topic to NPT! ;-)

Sep 15th - 17:12pm | Everyone deserv...

Another case of one person (judge) deciding how a public asset can and cannot be untilized by the public.

Sep 15th - 16:17pm | Anonymous

Art Sedlack was ahead of his time! At any rate - here is a relevant historical article on the history of snowmobiles in Glacier Park and Yellowstone. http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3951/is_200310/ai_n9338664/pg_1

Sep 15th - 16:03pm | craigmn3

I have to say, this seems like a good thing to me. Hundreds of loud, polluting machines will be kept out of yellowstone. You don't need to tear up the landscape if you can ride in snowcoaches.

Sep 15th - 16:03pm | SteveB

Way to go, Judge Sullivan! And congratulations to the dedicated people at GYC, Wilderness Society, NPCA, SC, WWA and NRDC who have kept at this fight all these years! (Cheers to JC and KB!) I only hope that when Palin revs up her rhetoric against this decision that our conservation-minded pols don't shy away from speaking out in defense of park protective policies.

Sep 15th - 15:51pm | Random Walker

"(T)his is not blanket permission to have fun in the parks in any way the NPS sees fit." Right on Judge Sullivan! Reminds me of one of my favorite Aldo Leopold quotes, "Recreational development is a job not of building roads into the lovely country, but of building receptivity into the still unlovely human mind. "

Sep 15th - 15:19pm | Anonymous

There is no mystery about what is going on here. Just have to look to see what elected officials live near Yellowstone and Grand Teton.

What's the Solution For Cape Hatteras National Seashore?

Sep 16th - 01:51am | Jesse Justice

We are for protecting the wildlife and Habitat, because we are apart of it and want to continue to be a part of it. That is why the ORV groups do beach sweeps,not environmental groups. It is ORV groups offering the reward for vandelized bird closures,not the enviromental groups, they're too busy looking for the next law suit .

House Subcommittee Considers Bill to Relax ORV Rules for Cape Hatteras National Seashore

Sep 15th - 21:30pm | Jeremy

Geezer, I think everyone has had enough "good models" falsehoods, lies and fake science from you people from the darkside. Quote "The consent decree was a valuable first step toward reasonable long-term limitations on ORVs." We have more than eleven thousand people on a petition that would beg to differ with such lies.

Sep 15th - 10:17am | Geezer

Cape Hatteras wildlife and visitors will benefit from a reduction in ORV traffic on the beaches. When I went there, it was a disappointment to see how the motor vehicles dominated the beaches. Something had to be done because beach traffic kept increasing, and bird nesting populations were rapidly going downhill.

Sep 15th - 08:23am | dapster

Powerful words by Mr. Clayton: Essentially, the ESA is used by NGOs to effect legislation through the courts that is properly enacted only through Congress. That's wrong, it's a problem, and it is recognized in Congress that steps should be taken to stop it.

Getting American Youth More Involved in the National Parks is a Difficult Challenge and a Golden Opportunity

Sep 15th - 17:51pm | Barky

Nice article, Chance. Especially like this part: The Park Service should consider adapting the WebRangers program to work as an application for Facebook or Myspace, the two most popular social networking sites. Youth would then be able to proclaim their NPS pride right on their profile, and learn something in the process.

Sep 15th - 15:30pm | Mom

Thank you Chance. And I credit my Mom for sharing the Smokies with me. May you find the peace and joy in the mountains as I do.

Sep 15th - 13:44pm | Bugsyshallfall

You know, maybe we should think about relaxing the advertisings restrictions on NPS.

Sep 15th - 12:56pm | Kelly at VNPA

Chance, thanks for a lovely, thought-providing essay. Another important player is the philanthropic community (private and corporate foundations), as well as the donations that individuals give to their national parks and the friends groups that support the national parks. Much more funding is needed than is currently available.

Attendance Shortfalls at Steamtown National Historic Site Prompt Calls for Privatization

Sep 15th - 17:34pm | Barky

Don't forget that decades ago Steamtown was a private interest in Vermont (I remember hearing the ads on TV when I was a kid). The original owner (er, perhaps I mean primary financial supporter) died in the 60's and the Vermont park went out of business. So would Steamtown survive today as a private concern again?

Sep 15th - 15:54pm | RoadRanger

STEA is another example of "build it and they will come" mentality compounded by Rust Belt welfare handed out where commercial capital will not go. In the bit of research I've done on this issue over the last day or two, it seems that STEA was half of the anchor designed to revitalize downtown Scranton.

Sep 15th - 13:42pm | Bugsyshallfall

Ok, The story on Steamtown is this, the much of the place of the park is historic and worth protecting but "sort off" on a local and regional scope. However, it was the rail yard and headquatersfor one of the first lines in the USA and is one of the best examples of "age of steam".

Sep 15th - 12:26pm | Lone Hiker

My error Beamis. The annual Little League tournament games at Cooperstown are indeed not the "official" LLWS finals. More of a preliiminary finals would be accurate. Ah, good 'ol Monday mornings, when the fingers and what little brain I have remaining aren't coordinating too well.

Sep 15th - 11:37am | Lepanto

ON PARK ORGANIZATION CODE LETTERS:

Sep 15th - 10:03am | Anonymous

Mr. Clayton,

Sep 15th - 09:44am | Lone Hiker

it's not like STEAM has much of an impact on the national economy I think that was another bit of tongue-in-cheek Ted. Nobody could possibly possess a level of ignorance that great to make that statement in all sincerity.

Sep 15th - 09:41am | Lone Hiker

I've been an avid railroad enthusiast since I was able to walk, having grown up along the maintenance feeder siding of the main AT&SF yard in the country. I'm also a member of the NMRA, have an expansive working 1920's-50's layout in my home which, spans 3 rooms (delivers burgers, hot dogs, chips, etc. around the house) and have 2 of my boys involved as modelers now as well.

Sep 15th - 09:20am | Ted Clayton

Anonymous said; "... it's not like STEAM has much of an impact on the national economy" Just to clarify here, our civilization would promptly collapse, without steam. Steam drives our economy, our industry, and our military.

Sep 14th - 23:50pm | Anonymous

Hah! You could be describing the mortgage industry as well! Ironic that there's not much outcry over bailing about big banks who screw up but there is over relatively small things like Steamtown (then again, it's not like STEAM has much of an impact on the national economy)

Sep 14th - 23:01pm | Sabattis

I've previously visited this Park, and while I enjoyed my experience here - I also felt like it missed the mark.

Sep 14th - 22:55pm | Merryland

Hey, you're looking at a new Vice President who was born in Scranton -- so don't expect that Steamtown will wither on the vine and die. Eight more years to get its act together...

Sep 14th - 22:10pm | Ted Clayton

Superheater; I have a considerable affiliation with your interest in historical steam and railroad operations, and empathy for the preservation effort you support. I cringe a bit, that so many aspects of our 'progress' 'discredit' formerly outstanding technologies.

Sep 14th - 20:58pm | Barky

I didn't realize it was so bad. I visited there a couple of years ago, and didn't feel disappointed. Yes, I was disappointed there weren't more visitors, but I didn't visit during the peak season anyway.

Sep 14th - 20:16pm | Marylander

My family and I go out of our way to ride in steam powered trains. For example, we never miss the Durango Silverton line when passing through Colorado. It is like stepping back in time, just magical. Bottom line: If my family can't ride the train -any train- for a awesome excursion, we are not going to make the trip.

Prime Location and Varied Habitat Help Make Point Reyes National Seashore a Biodiversity Treasure Trove

Sep 15th - 14:27pm | Bob Janiskee

Yes, I agree that Indiana Dunes has received less attention than it deserves in Traveler. I'll try to remedy that at some early opportunity.

Sep 15th - 14:25pm | Anonymous

You want diversity in a small area? Try Indiana Dunes National Lakeshore. Only 15,000 acres with more than 1400 species of plants, including more than 30 species of native orchids, and 46 species of mammals. I wager no other NPS area has so much in so little space.

Sep 14th - 22:58pm | Merryland

Now if they could only keep the pot-growers out of Point Reyes...

Alaska Regional Director Responds To Outrage Over Katmai Preserve Bear Hunt

Sep 14th - 18:49pm | Ted Clayton

Anonymous (Sept 14 '08) Hey, the most recent comment preceding yours is from last November - almost a year ago. There was a whole bunch of other comments, and we can't tell which one you are responding to. The original post says straight out:

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