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Park Rangers, Active and Retired, Lament Change in Gun Rules for National Parks

Jan 10th - 12:45pm | Fred Miller

It's been awhile since I've chimed in on this issue. My viewpoints haven't changed and I don't think anyone else's have either. I think it is immoral to require someone to disarm themselves when they cross a line on a map. How my concealed pistol will "scare" someone is beyond my wildest comprehension. It's like saying that they're offended by the color of my underwear!

Jan 10th - 12:03pm | Kurt Repanshek

Ted, I should know better, but.... * "Disproportionally"? Disproportionate to what? To Hispanics, to Asians, to African-Americans, to AARPers, to twenty-somethings, to white males, to white females, to black bears?

Jan 10th - 11:24am | Ted Clayton

Kurt, There was no sarcasm in my observations about the high level of gay usage in the Olympic Peninsula backcountry.

Jan 10th - 11:12am | Anonymous

When I went to Yellowstone, I had a .44 Mag. revolver in my back back when I hiked and camped in the wilderness areas. At that time a young woman 3 weeks earlier had been attacked by a grizzly bear, I felt I had the right to protect myself! I have a CCW for Minnesota, the left wing said it would be like the wild west, there would be gun battles on Main St., we haven't seen any of that.

Jan 10th - 11:02am | Kurt Repanshek

Ted, I'm starting to worry about your efforts at sarcasm....or, if you're being serious, does this impression overly concern you?

Jan 10th - 10:53am | Ted Clayton

Warren & Kurt viz Parks, Gay Rights, and Drift Kurt cracked the door: "Perhaps someone can spin [(gay) civil rights] in a fashion that does tie it to the parks, and I'd be curious to see that one." I believe that gays are over-represented on the 'intermediate to advanced' backcountry trails.

Jan 10th - 10:12am | Ted Clayton

Hobblefoot,

Jan 10th - 10:10am | Warren Z

Right on, Kurt. I am completely aware of my drift away from the source of the topic, and I thank you keeping the discussion on track. (Though I am very curious to see response to my last post, I totally understand if it doesn't make onto the site.)

Jan 10th - 09:36am | Ted Clayton

vince K., I have seen folks use the quote (uncited): "An armed society is a polite society." There is good merit in it.

Jan 10th - 09:06am | Kurt Repanshek

Warren, You're encouraging some serious thread drift here, which concerns me in that it's directed AWAY from national park-related topics.

Jan 10th - 08:54am | Warren Z

Kurt, You do an awesome job with this site, I for one appreciate the breadth of coverage, and the amount of content, and the sometimes alternative viewpoint you present for debate. So far I've only found myself posting comments related to the legal carry in National Parks issue. (What can I say, I enjoy a good debate.) Keep up the good work!

Jan 10th - 06:30am | Anonymous

As I have stated before. I carry a gun on my RV for protection. I consider this my home space and I will continue to carry the gun onboard legal or not. I see no reason to carry concealed . If someone thinks they need protection while out on a trail, carry bear spray. In my opinion it will do as good on a man or beast as a handgun.

Jan 10th - 01:18am | Hobblefoot

Ted, you are probably correct in your assumption that many of these comments were made to bait the Pro-Gun folks, but I suggest that it is not the only reason for the comments.

Jan 9th - 20:53pm | vince K.

I guess that your name is on the page so you get the glory and the blame. I've enjoyed the Traveler and I'm a person who believes that we would be more respectful of each other if there was the possibility that someone was armed. You make a point that people rant and rave across the internet at you. They wouldn't be so brave in a face to face situation.

Jan 9th - 20:16pm | Ted Clayton

The first line of my previous comment is: "Kurt presents a list of firearms-concerns assembled by former Park-employee groups." Kurt presents a list. Of firearms-concerns. Assembled by former Park-employee groups. Read the sentence again. The concerns are "assembled" by former Park-employee groups. Kurt "presents" a list of them.

Jan 9th - 18:38pm | Anonymous

"How will families with youngsters feel about attending interpretive programs in national parks when the person next to them might be armed?" They will feel the same way as they do today (whatever that may be) since the person next to them today might be armed. Not everyone follows the rules.

Jan 9th - 18:18pm | Kurt Repanshek

Ted, Thanks for sicing the dogs on the bait. But first things first. Let's make the record clear that *I* didn't "present" those concerns, they were presented by the Association of National Park Rangers. I merely reported on 'em.

Jan 9th - 17:20pm | Ted Clayton

Kurt presents a list of firearms-concerns assembled by former Park-employee groups. 1. Families & children at Parks will be spooked by the mere idea that some other visitors may be armed. People know that other people in the communities they are in, are armed. Guns are part of many families' experience. In isn't a novel concept, that some people have guns.

Earthquakes Continuing to Rattle Yellowstone National Park

Jan 10th - 11:09am | Ted Clayton

K Gies, For every "supereruption" there are a thousand "big eruptions", and for every one of those there is a thousand "little eruptions". Neither science nor the government can really tell reliably which of those 'events' a sustained pattern of 'warning activity' will lead to - if anything at all. Most warning-activity comes to nothing.

Jan 10th - 10:26am | K Gries

I would like to know if there is a plan in place to notify those affected if Yellowstone go's. Which is going to be everyone from Missouri/Kansas north and east. Or is everyone going to kept in the dark and our government and FEMA just hoping for the best?

NPCA, Park Retirees File Lawsuit to Halt Change in National Park Gun Rules

Jan 10th - 02:38am | Dustin

Ted: Thanks. I hope you enjoyed your day on the trail. :)

Jan 10th - 00:37am | PavePusher

Why would anyone think they might need to defend themselves from a criminal in National Parks? Well, lets see... http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/0808/p03s01-ussc.html

Jan 10th - 00:24am | PavePusher

Warren Z wrote: "My life wasn't threatened, though I did suffer bodily harm. But you know what? I never once thought "I wish I'd had a gun..." The gang that surrounded and attacked me did so swiftly, even efficiently. The lead pipe they used to break my arm and lacerate my scalp almost knocked me unconscious..."

Jan 9th - 11:32am | Eric

Hello All, I have been reading the comments on this subject here for some time now. I hope my comments here don't sound like a wise guy, that is not my intention. I am just trying to understand. I am not anti gun, I own guns myself. I do not hunt anymore, I just enjoy target shooting. Myself, I don't feel the need to carry a concealed weapon in a Nat. Park or elsewhere.

Jan 9th - 11:11am | Dr. Carl Dick

Dear Warren: You are correct in that the Heller opinion included language ruling that a ban on handguns in the home is unconstitutional. However, it appears you need reminding that the opinion also included other "very specific wording", including the following (from page 19 of the ruling; emphases mine):

Jan 9th - 10:32am | Warren Z

Dustin and Ted, How can you blatantly ignore the very specific wording of the Supreme Court's written opinion in DC v. Heller?

Jan 9th - 09:04am | Ted Clayton

Dustin, Thanks for the lucid correction of the distortion that the Supreme Court ruling in D.C. vs Heller was about allow guns in the home (and not elsewhere). Stale baloney ... and a full-letter mark-down on the homework & preparation grade for everyone using this bogus talking-point. Excellent pair of comments! ----

Jan 8th - 23:39pm | Dustin

Kurt said:

Jan 8th - 22:38pm | Dustin

Kurt said: According to the Supreme Court, your "right to bear arms" in your home may not be infringed, but it's perfectly legal for a government, state or federal, to restrict where you can carry.

Jan 8th - 18:16pm | Kurt Repanshek

In fairness, Kirby, there have been pot plantations in Sequoia, Yosemite, and a few other Western parks, but I haven't heard any reports of the growers chasing any tourists, or even engaging rangers.

Jan 8th - 17:48pm | Kirby Adams

murders, robberies, rapes, kidnapping and other assorted acts of violence committed against innocent park visitors by sadistic lunatics and the drug runners who use the parks as their grow/lab area?

Jan 8th - 16:29pm | Brendan Perez

This has been in some level of discussion since 2004 at least-petitions, bill drafts, etc. and the gun control groups have been there the whole time predicting rivers of blood, shootouts over camp space, rampant poaching, etc. all the while ignoring the fact that criminals carry wherever they want whenever they want.

Jan 8th - 16:24pm | Ted Clayton

Warren flashes his political skills: "I am a gay man in a relationship of 18+ years ... I'll give you legal carry if you folks give me the legal HUMAN right to marry my partner of 18 years." Among the historical American leaders whom I resonate best to, a disproportionate number based their accomplishments mainly on the art of compromise. ;-)

Jan 8th - 16:07pm | Kurt Repanshek

Dustin, According to the Supreme Court, your "right to bear arms" in your home may not be infringed, but it's perfectly legal for a government, state or federal, to restrict where you can carry.

Jan 8th - 15:47pm | Dustin

Kurt, your only sources were the NPCA, the CNPSR, & the Brady folks, so the article is all one sided, just regurgitating their (the NPCA, the CNPSR, and the Brady folks) unsubstantiated anti freedom rhetoric.

Jan 8th - 11:20am | Warren Z

For the record, I am not "anti-gun". I happen to be "anti-" carry a gun anywhere you please, a gut reaction I admit, though I reasonably accept the well stated arguments and opinions of most of the commentators on the pro- carry side. I apologize for letting my own commentary slide into a realm of sarcasm and misinterpretation.

Muir Woods National Monument is More than Really Old, Really Big Trees

Jan 10th - 01:51am | Scott Bradford

Uh, Bob, did you forget to buy a new calendar? That Centennial was one year ago. [Ed: My bad; it's been fixed. Now, here's some weaselspeak -- a limp excuse, to be sure. When you go to the Muir Woods website, which has not been properly updated, you'll see at one point this statement;

Interior Officials Want to Allow Concealed Carry in the National Parks

Jan 9th - 21:37pm | Dave

Concealed Carry holders are some of the most law abiding most checked "civilians"in the country. It is amazing that the anti-gun folks really seem to believe that since it was illegal to carry a gun that people did not carry a gun. Now the law abiding citizens can carry as well. You can carry concealed in 48 states. Millions of people across the country legally carry concealed everyday.

Judge Tosses Surprise Canyon Lawsuit

Jan 9th - 12:55pm | Taxpayer

Hey Frank and Ned,

The Interior Building in Washington, D.C. Gets a "Green Roof"

Jan 9th - 12:31pm | Dr. D.C. Harris...

I just don't understand why some people can be so pessimistic about positive environmental actions. Of course, these projects may not be as perfect as they should be but it should always be considered as a first step towards our ultimate goal. This project may be flawed for some, but that doesn't mean the people behind it are not doing something to improve it.

Lost to Hurricanes, the Flamingo Lodge at Everglades National Park Will be Hard to Replace

Jan 9th - 11:10am | Red

People should camp more. Everglades Flamingo has showers so a tent and thermarests is all you need. Stove is nice but optional. Mosquito are the only issue. NPS needs do spray often, a fraction of the cost of building a hurricane proof lodge.

Studies Show Bear Spray More Effective Than Guns Against Grizzlies

Jan 9th - 10:24am | Bob Janiskee

Dear Armed and proud: Please remember that many (perhaps most?) who oppose concealed carry in the national parks are not "anti-gun." Take me for instance. I've owned and used guns for going on sixty years now.

Jan 9th - 07:50am | Armed and proud

I am not as concerned about bears as I am about the possibility of some deranged maniac out to do harm to me or some other innocent person(s) who are out enjoying the great outdoors. While crimes such as robbery, rape and murder are more prevalent in the cities they do occur in national parks (wilderness areas) not your national monument type areas.

Interior Department To Be Sued Over Cape Hatteras National Seashore Plover Habitat Decisions

Jan 9th - 09:12am | Clanton

Recreational Area a Red Herring All National Seashores have a recreational component to them despite if “Recreational Area” was added to the name of the park as an amendment to the enabling legislation to allow waterfowl hunting in that park, as was the case with Cape Hatteras National Seashore.

Black Bear Attacks Child at Great Smoky Mountains National Park

Jan 8th - 21:06pm | Anonymous

I totally agree, the only issue is that we can't have bears and kids playing together. So, either don't build a house in the woods and complain about the animals or stay in the city. If you are visiting a State Park that is known for bears, heck you can't walk two feet in Gatlinburg, TN without someone selling you a cute little black bear stuffed animal, T-shirt or salt & pepper shakers.

Jan 8th - 20:54pm | Anonymous

I totally agree, the only issue is that we can't have bears and kids playing together. So, either don't build a house in the woods and complain about the animals or stay in the city. If you are visiting a State Park that is known for bears, heck you can't walk two feet in Gatlinburg, TN without someone selling you a cute little black bear stuffed animal, T-shirt or salt & pepper shakers.

First Ladies National Historic Site Struggles to Attract Visitors

Jan 8th - 16:24pm | Azure

I'm sure most people here know that the National Park Service had and has ZERO interest in acquiring and administering a lot of these pork-barrel parks. Why does Cuyahoga National Park (a place that ought to be a county park at best) exist? Because local business/tourism/political interests wanted it to exist. Why was it upgraded from National Recreation Area to National Park?

Weekly Snowshoe Treks Coming to Glacier National Park

Jan 8th - 16:05pm | tahoma

Kurt-

Who's Being Mentioned For Director of the National Park Service?

Jan 8th - 10:49am | Bob Janiskee

Rangertoo, I'm struck by the parallels with academia, which is full of competent drudges who run departments, institutes, programs, and even a few universities here and there. Competent drudges get down there in the trenches and do the work, but they are completely replaceable -- just cogs in the machinery -- and are quickly forgotten after they've served out their time.

Jan 8th - 10:34am | Rangertoo

While I like these career NPS employees, I do not think that is what the NPS needs. The NPS needs someone politically connected and Washington savvy to raise the issues and needs of the bureau. The last few Directors have all been competent, experienced, park managers. That's not what the NPS needs in the top job. Let the career professionals handle that.

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