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What Would Wildlife Say About Concealed Carry in National Parks?

Feb 22nd - 16:50pm | Anonymous

"What about "controlled" burns? Doesn't this activity kill lots of animals in the name of "ecosystem management" ? What about the seemingly arbitrary decision to let a forest fire "burn itself out" ? Depending on the time of year these ghastly infernos can burn through a lot of wildlife."- Beamis Controlled burns don't often kill wildlife. See:

Feb 22nd - 16:49pm | Rick Smith

I vote we give gun topics a rest on NPT. We aren't ever going to agree, and it is getting a bit tedious to read the same old points over and over. Rick Smith

Feb 22nd - 16:14pm | Lee

The majority of people who visit national parks cannot read a bear. That is why Grand Teton and other parks do things like the Wildlife Brigade.

Feb 22nd - 15:33pm | RAH

Kurt your humorous post has more comments than most so I think it was sucess. Of course those who are opposed and those for CCW in parks have passionate feelings about the issue, that is why posts on these subjects gather so many comments. I think most of us enjoyed the humor. It was a nice light touch.

Feb 22nd - 12:20pm | JimB

A nice touch of levity on this topic, Kurt - it was worth a try:-)

Feb 22nd - 12:01pm | Fred Miller

Thanks for trying Kurt :) This worn-out argument could use a little smile now and then.

Feb 22nd - 11:46am | RAH

I do not claim original credit for my "Right to Arm Bears" That is a title to a book published by Baen books. It was just appropiate to the picture.

Feb 22nd - 11:40am | Kurt Repanshek

Sigh, so much for trying to bring a little levity to this worn-out topic. Perhaps it is time to take on the roads and all those killer cars, trucks and buses. At least then we'd know for sure what was driving the decline in national park visitation!

Feb 22nd - 11:24am | Bill R.

Great topic and I'm glad it's come up again. First of all anti-gun people refuse to accept the fact that not just anyone can carry a handgun into a National Park and when they do, it cannot be into a concession area or park office.

Feb 22nd - 08:37am | Anonymous

Camper shot by bear who found drug dealer's hand gun left on ground in the National Park... oh this is good, what a storiy for the media.

Feb 21st - 22:19pm | RAH

Oh I am glad you all enjoyed my caption. Maybe someday there will be parks where the game animals hunt humans and vice versa. I read SF story where that happened. I would not be surprised if hunters would not take that challenge.

Feb 21st - 22:17pm | RAH

CCW allowed in NPS should not have any effect since it would only be used in dire circumstance and all here has indicated NPS are generally very safe. Normal prudent human behavior for animal encounters should keep any need for a CCW holder to use the weapon to shoot an animal.

Feb 21st - 22:05pm | brendabrn

oh yeah - not to steal RAH's thunder, but his comment was a bumpersticker in the late 70s/early 80s

Feb 21st - 22:02pm | brendabrn

I really wish someone would explain to me why anyone thinks they need to carry a concealed weapon in a national park... In fact, why are we the only country obsessed with the desire to carry guns everywhere we go? Any questions about how we got to the point of believing we need to carry a conceal weapon in a national park? This seems ridiculous!

Feb 21st - 20:49pm | Ray Bane

I have owned and used firearms from my pre-teens. My father trained me to be a hunter. I certainly am not an anti gun nut, but I believe that there should be limits to the right to own and possess firearms. All rights have reasonable limits. I have no problem obeying laws and regulations limiting the carrying of personal loaded firearms on airplanes, trains, busses or in most parks.

Feb 21st - 20:01pm | Tom

To all those who respect their First Amendment rights but have no respect for the Second Amendment. Show me any animal in any park, anywhere in the world, not just our national parks, that can carry on an intelligent conversation against the second amendment, & I'll give up my rights under the second amendment!!!

Feb 21st - 19:07pm | TJP

I guess we really should ask the Bears. After all, we certainly know that all the rapists and robbers and murders don't want us to be able to protect ourselves. So I'm sure a bear would be plenty pissed off if he attacked someone and they pulled a 44 out on him? What do you think? Remember, once your dead, by ANY means, YOUR EXTINCT.

Feb 21st - 18:53pm | John

Concealed weapons in parks don't bother me, as long as the guns stay concealed. If some idiot gets caught brandishing it, or poaches an animal, throw the book at him! It should be difficult to prove that some animal was a real bodily threat. Also, if they are making noise by shooting cans at dusk, they should be easy to find, and fined.

Feb 21st - 18:45pm | Rick Rollins

If the bear shoots alot you could really be in trouble, unless he runs out or rounds

Feb 21st - 18:38pm | Anonymous

I bet if someone was getting their butt chewed on by a wild animal . They would not Complain if someone who happened by had a concealed carry permit , I bet they would be more than happy then.

Feb 21st - 14:46pm | Vince

i don't know as long as they pass the back ground check it seems ok to me but again old Yogi bear being smarter then the average bear (addicted to picnic baskets) could turn to armed robbery to feed his habit. Freedom is always a too edged sword!

Feb 21st - 11:19am | Chris

If that ain't a great caption, I don't know what is... :-D

Feb 21st - 10:31am | Hobblefoot

Kurt, I believe you've come to the same place I have with this issue. By & large this debate is almost irrelevant as it would appear from the comments left over the last 6 months by those in favor of concealed carry in the parks, that these people will and do carry their concealed & loaded weapons into the National Parks regardless of what the law actually is.

Feb 21st - 10:21am | Kurt Repanshek

Well, I can forget about a caption contest. I don't think anyone can surpass the genius of RAH.

Feb 21st - 10:20am | RAH

" The right to arm Bears! "

NPCA, PEER Voice Concerns Over Proposed Mountain Bike Rule Change In National Parks

Feb 22nd - 16:46pm | Zebulon

I've seen my share of trails destroyed by hiker bad behavior. Kurt, your basic argument is that preserving national parks for future generations and allowing mountain biking is somehow mutually exclusive but offer no good explanation for it, other than bringing the fact that some bikers don't know how to behave. BFD.

Feb 22nd - 13:53pm | Mark E

Here in Colorado, we have many real-world scenarios for observing the relative impacts of hiking and biking. Many trails that are popular with both groups have sections that are close to bikes because of Wilderness designations -- the Colorado trail is the best-known example.

Feb 22nd - 11:33am | Kurt Repanshek

IMTN, re: "No one I know of has offered, with similar convincing detail, a kindred personal account about being displaced or forced to hike radically damaged trails because of bicycles. Moreover, the available science runs counter to Anonymous's assertion that mountain biking damages trails more than hiking."

Feb 21st - 23:34pm | Zebulon

Bob, Muir woods has plenty of dirt trails (hiking only of course :)) that start from the bottom and go up toward Mt Tamalpais. I heard that they are quite fun to ride as well. :) Anyway, the point is that Muir woods is a huge attraction to hikers of all stripes, but the vast majority of them sticks to the asphalt portion of the park, which I found to be quite ironic.

Feb 21st - 20:52pm | imtnbke

Anonymous of four posts above describes himself as a mountain biker but admits that he rides heedlessly ("I get mad when I have to slow down"). He wants to assign his misconduct to a whole generation of mountain bikers in his region.

Feb 21st - 20:35pm | imtnbke

I am always reassessing the nature of trail-use conflicts. I no longer toe the party line of some of my fellow mountain bikers that nonmotorized user groups can all get along on every trail. And as I stated in my prior post, I acknowledge that the social impact of mountain biking can be, in certain senses, in certain places, and at certain times, higher than that of hiking.

Feb 21st - 19:56pm | imtnbke

I read the National Park Conservation Association and Wilderness advocacy group attachments. NPCA's position boils down to an argument that bicycles are fine for parking lots and for battling Winnebagos on NPS's paved roads. Despite NPCA's perfunctory statement that bikes may be OK on some trails somewhere, I've never heard of a trail that NPCA would find suitable for cycling.

Feb 21st - 18:36pm | Anonymous

@ Zebulon- One more thing- If you take a look at the stats (take yer pick - typically generated from user surveys) you'll see that in heavily used public lands, hiking is the #1 activity.

Feb 21st - 18:30pm | Anonymous

@ Zebulon- I would bet that the NPS managed lands are such a minuscule percentage of the overall public lands that I don't think you lose out by not being able to mountain bike in National Parks.

Feb 21st - 18:25pm | HightechParks

The Wilderness is closed to bikes not for any kind of logical reason, but simply because the ultra enviros managed to get the administration to close it. There is no inherent reason why bikes can't be used in wilderness other than the Sierra Club hates biking. Simple as that.

Feb 21st - 16:10pm | Anonymous

Keep Wilderness and National parks backcountry trails for animals ie. human; horses; and of course wild animals!!!

Feb 21st - 15:24pm | Bob Janiskee

The NPS knows what it is doing at Muir Woods, Zebulon. Experience shows that if you let visitors wander around off-trail, they walk round and round and round those big redwoods. The result is dead trees. All of that tromping compacts the soil around the tree roots, eliminates vital air pockets in the upper root zone, and severely inhibits the downward movement of moisture.

Feb 21st - 15:00pm | Zebulon

The Wilderness is closed to bikes not for any kind of logical reason, but simply because the ultra enviros managed to get the administration to close it. There is no inherent reason why bikes can't be used in wilderness other than the Sierra Club hates biking. Simple as that.

Feb 21st - 14:53pm | Random Walker

Enough? Well lets take Washington state, in fact lets narrow it down to the Wenatchee National Forest alone. Here they will find 2,500 miles of trail to play on with their toy.

Feb 21st - 12:27pm | HightechParks

Maybe living in the west, where public lands that are open to hundreds of miles of rideable trails are open to all is gives me skewed viewpoint... but aren't there enough places where people can mountain bike?

Feb 21st - 10:03am | RAH

I was active in the push to get Wilderness Areas in the early 1970's and considered myself a conservationist and enviromentalist. But since then the extreme positions of the enviromentalist have left me behind. So I still consider myself a conservationist but not an enviromenatlist.

Freeze On New Regs Could Impact Efforts to Expand Mountain Biking in National Parks

Feb 22nd - 16:37pm | Zebulon

Toothdoctor: you must be a one of a kind. ;) Frankly, I'll summarize your arguments: it's the law, deal with it... I'm sure you can do better. Just because the law discriminates against a category of users does not make the law right. I have yet to see anybody come up with a logical argument as to why bikes should be banned.

Feb 22nd - 10:00am | toothdoctor

Is it just me or is anyone else getting tired of all these special interests raising a ruckus crying out, "What about me!?!” Whether it be natural resource extraction (oil & gas, coal, etc.), snowmobiling, or in this case mountain biking, in and around our National Parks, it appears that no one will be happy until they all have their short-sighted wants & needs met.

Singer Dolly Parton Named Ambassador for Great Smoky Mountains National Park's Anniversary

Feb 22nd - 09:52am | Bob Janiskee

Larry, did you see Dolly on "Larry King Live" a few days ago? She was great.

Feb 21st - 21:10pm | Larry

I love Dolly, who does'nt? I love the way she works for the preservation and promotion of the Great Smoky Mountains. I wish we could get her to help us stop the destruction of our beautiful mountains us here in East Kentucky by the Mountain Top Removal coal mining process.

Pine Beetle Outbreak Leads to Fewer Campground Sites in Rocky Mountain National Park

Feb 21st - 22:27pm | RAH

Shame that the beetles are damaging so many trees. Would low grade forest fires also kill beetles ? If not we could spray the tree with liquid nitrogen which would lower the temperature enough to kill beetle where they want to diminsh the population like campgrounds.

Secretary Salazar Calls for Review Of Gun Rules in National Parks

Feb 21st - 21:58pm | RAH

MRC, Thanks for the links. If I interpreted the bear info it indicates that bluff charges are rare and considered 'encounters" that should be reported. It also says what to do if the charge turns from bluff to real. Which is curl up and offer no resistance. But the advice if how to resist a bear attack to a tent is quite different and indicates to fight back any way possible.

Feb 21st - 16:18pm | MRC

I'm not sure, if I get your intention right. Do you expect us to provide eye witness accounts of bluff charging to assure you that the NPS does not simply makes this animal behavior up in their:

Arches National Park Finds Its Birthday Overshadowed By Drilling Concerns

Feb 21st - 21:19pm | E.A.

Connie, you are creating a false choice between two scenarios when the real answer is that wind power AND oil drilling are problematic eyesores. It is not right to drill helter-skelter just because wind turbines are hypocritical (and I agree they are).

The Confederate Victory at Brices Cross Roads Did Little to Help the Confederate Cause

Feb 21st - 17:49pm | GlenW

Wow, I never heard of this battle, but I am from Maryland, so we tend to focus more locally. Thanks for the post script. Very interesting; incredible, really.

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