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Reader Participation Day: Which Issue Resonates More: Yellowstone Snowmobiles or Cape Hatteras ORVs?

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Two of the most contentious issues in the National Park System are the debate over snowmobiles in Yellowstone National Park and the one over off-road vehicle management at Cape Hatteras National Seashore.

In Yellowstone, the dispute over recreational snowmobiles is moving into its second decade at a cost of more than $10 million to the National Park Service. Sometime next year we should see the latest draft winter-use plan and how it proposes to let visitors enter the park: snowmobiles, snowcoaches, or a mix of the two?

While snowmobile technology certainly has evolved since 2000 -- when this issue became a Ping-Pong ball between conservationists worried about impacts to Yellowstone's air, water, sound, and employee and visitor health and snowmobile enthusiasts who prefer to enjoy winter in the park atop their sleds -- how much those impacts can be resolved or mitigated remains questionable.

Past efforts at solving this conundrum have resulted in lawsuits that succeeded in sending the Yellowstone staff back to the drawing board time and again.

At Cape Hatteras, the debate over when and where those who rely on off-road vehicles to reach preferred spots on the seashore is only a handful of years old. But it is particularly heated with abuse at times heaped on Park Service staff as well as on Defenders of Wildlife and the National Audubon Society, which successfully sued to have the Park Service produce an ORV management plan.

Depending on which side you listen to, the proposed ORV rules would be devastating to local businesses and force surf casters and their families to walk miles toting their gear to reach their preferred fishing spots, or they would go a long way towards restoring healthy populations of endangered and threatened sea turtles and shorebirds.

While, understandably, these issues can have the greatest impact on the economies and livelihoods of those living closest to Yellowstone and Cape Hatteras, these are units of the National Park System, and as such should be important to all who enjoy the national parks, no matter where they live.

So, with that background, which of these two issues is of greater interest to you?

Comments

It amazes me that some don't truly know what is going on in Yellowstone. It is obvious that Angela hasn't been in Yellowstone since the new rules have been put in place in 2004 as there are no 2 strokes in the park other than the park service themselves or researchers snowmobiles. All others are 4 stroke just like an automobile engine so no blue haze.

If William Hardy lives near Yellowstone he should no that performance pipes aren't added to the snowmobiles taken in Yellowstone as all are provided by the rental places and have guides leading them through the park so no outfitter would want to lose their permit for sending in illegal snowmobiles. Also please tell me how many athletic types will ski from West Yellowstone to Old Faithful and back the same day? I don't think many will do the 60 mile round trip so it isn't just the non-athletic types wanting to see the beauty of Yellowstone. Athletic types as well as family of all ages will use a snowmobile or snow coach to visit the park.

Randi Minetor should be relieved to know that the snowmobiles are only allowed to travel on the roads that the automobiles travel on in the summer. No trails or open meadows are allowed to be ridden on by snowmobile. Yellowstone is a sacred place and is treated that way. In fact if you want quiet and solitude in the park then it is far better to visit in the winter than the summer. Everyone go enjoy Yellowstone and thank you T.J. for some rational comments.


I've never been able to understand why anyone would need to drive on the beach at Hatteras when a blacktop road parallels the beach. Is it the walking or carrying that is objectionable? I just shake my head at the thought that either is a consideration. Lazy, lazy. My grandmother used to tell me that "nothing good comes easy". After a few years of prohibited vehicles on the beach fisherfolk will appreciate the solitude as they dip their lines in the surf. Trust me -

10 M of tax dollars spent on the snowmobile issue? Come on lets be reasonable. Do we really NEED to drive a snowmachine EVERYWHERE? The answer to this issue is such a no brainer that it's ludicrous. There are acres and acres of land surrounding Yellowstone that can be accessed by a snow machine, why do we need to allow them "in" Yellowstone? "The animals have adapted to snow machines" - really ??? what animals ?? Maybe you have convinced yourself but I don't buy it. Not even "Grizzly Man" knew the brown bear like he thought he did. I can't imagine that you speak with much authority.

So my response to your question is that both issues are as equally important to me. They both address issues that are at the core of the Service's Organic Act. We, as a Nation, made a decision over 100 years ago to preserve these small parcels of significant landscape in perpetuity lets hold to that promise.


YNP4Everyone, while it's certainly true that snowmobiles are restricted to the roads in Yellowstone, it's not true that everyone obeys that regulation. Things have been improved from the pre-guide years, but from time to time there have been incidents of off-road travel.

Julie, your comparison of the impacts of nature and those of motorized vehicles, while interesting, I don't think works. A very tangible part of a national park experience is the power of nature, whether it's measured in snowfall, raging rivers, and yes, even wildfires that are naturally sparked.

Human-caused impacts are decidedly not part of nature or a natural infliction.

That said, our collective responsibility is to decide which human-caused impacts are acceptable on public lands, be they managed by the National Park Service, the U.S. Forest Service, or the U.S. Bureau of Land Management, or some other federal agency. The ongoing battles over snowmobiles in Yellowstone and ORVs at Cape Hatteras are just two examples -- very glaring examples I would submit -- that we're having a hard time deciding whether the impacts are reasonable.


Kurt,

This is a tantalizing statement:

"Human-caused impacts are decidedly not part of nature or a natural infliction."

This may be the root of all our relationship problems with nature. Are we above nature? Are we separate from nature? Or are we a part of nature? This is a fundamental, albeit difficult to answer, question. If we are separate from nature we have the "right" to do as we please, nature is there for our taking. If we are a part of nature, then what we do to the environment, good, bad or otherwise, is part of the cycle...we are neither hurting nor helping the environment.

I would be curious to hear what others think about this.


Kurt,

I will say I am impressed by your website taking on this issue again.

I do need to correct you in the fact that the issues of Cape Hatteras have been going on for decades also and not the handful of years you stated. It is only now that the posterchild became a little fuzzy bird. The first attempts to close the park to ORVs was very early on, but there was no other form of transportation and no roads at the time. Then there was the failed attempt to use the ghost crab as a poster child along with sand compaction, and so on...

Human caused impacts are only used when they benfit the park system. This is proven by the park system instituting their own measures of Human caused impacts by killing animals to protect others.

It is amazing when someone decides to slam others for what they do and they have never even smelled the same air as the people they claim to be more knowledgable than. Unless you understand to whole picture please stay in your comfort zone.

Speaking of

Ed your correct in only one thing about Cape Hatteras and that is the blacktop does sometimes parallel the beach. Why is it you chose to slam ORV users as lazy and not the millions who drive through the NPS sites every year. Is allowing any modernization in the NPS System Human Caused Impacts. If so please remove all electricity, roads and any and all items and buildings from the NPS Sytem as they were crweated by man and provide a level of comfort that my Grandmother (who grew up with no AC, No Electricity, no GPS no Emegency beacons, no TV , weather reports, no internet.) would constitue as being spoiled.

I have been to several NPS parks and to be honest I found very few areas that were not touched by humans.

I do access the beach with my vehicle. I do pick up trash off the beach. I do only use my vehicle to access the beach because I have two small children and we prefer less crowded accomidations than say Virginia Beach. Ed the beaches there are wider than you think and with small children you do not just walk out a few miles and set up and then walk back. When I leave the beach each day I leave only tire tracks, which mother nature takes care of shortly there after. I have seen trash blowing through campgrounds at every NPS park I have been to and no one cleaning up after themselves or others as they do in Cape Hatteras.


Matt,

Indeed, debate over how the seashore should be managed and utilized has been going on almost from its inception. My intended reference, which I could have made more clear, was to the legal fray stemming from the lawsuit brought in 2007 by Audubon and Defenders.

I also would question whether "Human-caused impacts are only used when they benefit the park system." There are a number of examples where any benefit is questionable...but that's a story for another day;-)


The worst part is if you had a solution that 99% of us agreed on, the 1% would still produce a lawsuit that will still cause us to spend 10 million to defend. Maybe that was your point, Kurt.
As for my opinion I am for Snowmobiles with limited numbers etc.. that T.J. and William Hardy best described. I do enjoy reading everybody's view including those who differ from mine.


Haven't seen Yellowstone in the winter, but hope to soon. To me, winter is about the silence. Hopefully, we can work to preserve that soundscape.

Living close to Hateras and having driven on the beaches, I would like to see an option that let's all people enjoy all the beaches, not just the priviledge few that have 4 wheel drive vehicles and the desire to take them on the beach.

Why can't a concessioner be found to run a shuttle out to the popular areas (like Cape Point), put more parking behind the dunes in the other areas and close the beaches to all vehicles. That way, more people can enjoy more of the park. 10 percent of the visitors shouldn't control 90 percent of the beaches because of their vehicles.

I notice people say they come to Hateras because they can drive on Hateras beaches, but not their beaches closer to home. Why should Hateras be different? It's surely deserving as much respect as other beaches, if not more. If the economic impact to the towns along the banks is too great, let them open their beaches to vehicles.


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